Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should: Where Marketers Draw the Ethical Line

Hazem has spent nearly two decades running martech across 20-plus markets, and his argument is refreshingly unfashionable. Ticking the legal box is not the same as doing right by a customer. His test for whether a campaign belongs in the world is disarmingly simple: would you be happy for it to land in front of your own parents or kids?

Trust, he argues, deserves to sit alongside conversion as a metric that actually matters, because the quick win often costs you the relationship. The same discipline applies to data. The skill is collecting the least you need and making it count, rather than hoarding everything and personalising because the tech now lets you.

Consent gets a similar going-over. A 90% opt-in rate means little if people ticked the box to reach the checkout and then ignore you. And AI, in his framing, changes the rules of the game rather than the game itself. It scales whatever you feed it, good judgement or bad.

Takeaways:

• Trust is a metric. Start treating it like one.
• The family test: if you’d not send it to your own loved ones, rethink it.
• Minimum data, maximum impact. The rest is hoarding.
• A signed consent box is permission, not comprehension.
• AI doesn’t rewrite the ethics. It just scales your answer.
• Governance is what holds the line when the commercial pressure arrives.

Most people don’t set out to market unethically. They run out of time, hit a target, and the customer turns back into a number on a dashboard. Hazem’s point is that the fix isn’t more conscience in the moment. It’s building the guardrails before the pressure builds.

Catch the full episode on Spotify, YouTube if you prefer video, or wherever you usually tune into your favourite podcasts.

[00:00:19] Chantelle:  What happens when marketing becomes so personalised, automated, and data driven that it starts crossing the line from helpful to manipulative? On today’s episode of The CX Equation, we’re talking about ethical marketing with Hazem El Taha, a global martech leader recognised in marketing automation, customer trust, and AI driven engagement. Hazem has spent nearly two decades helping organisations modernise how they use data, technology, and automation to improve customer experience at scale. His work spans first party data strategy, personalisation, AI powered marketing operations, customer data platforms, and governance, always with a strong focus on balancing commercial performance with customer trust and ethical responsibility. Today, we’re exploring one of the most important conversations happening in CX and marketing right now. Where should the ethical boundaries be in modern marketing? From AI and data usage to personalisation, consent, manipulation, and trust, we’ll unpack what responsible marketing should actually look like in practice. Hazem, it’s great to have you with us.

[00:01:19] Hazem:  Thank you. Thank you for the such a lovely intro.

[00:01:22] Mark:  So, Hazem, you’ve worked across many markets over many years and probably largely thought about marketing technology in terms of performance and efficiency. Was there a single moment that stands out when you realized MarTech is also about responsibility and human impact too?

[00:01:38] Hazem:  Yeah. Thanks, Mark, for the question. I mean, let me start with this way. In my early career, it was the obsession with looking at measuring things by clicks, what kind of ROI, and all that stuff. It was all focused on the quick win or what potentially how we can optimise things to the best or the most cheapest or wherever equation that, kind of, pleased the client or the business owner. It’s a lot of learning there. But I think at some point when you progress with your career, you think “is this the right thing you’re doing? Is this the right thing to do for the customer? The moment you start thinking that customer is actually a real person. It’s not a business objective. It could be Mark, could be Chantelle, could be Hazem. Things change for yourself in terms of how you should look into it. So, yeah, it came through query, through a lot of trial and errors and learning from different things. So I’m not gonna say from day one, I figured out what I should be doing, but I think with progressing with more experience, the more wisdom you can get in your life.

[00:02:42] Mark:  So where would you put customer trust, and where does that fit in alongside performance targets?

[00:02:49] Hazem:  For me, when it comes to customers’ trust, I think I learned that a lot eventually when working with financial services. And, that comes first. That comes the centre of attention for everyone. Because when you look at that as your, actually, your way to measure things, it’s like how to help or how to work towards improving that trust, that relationship with your customer, and everything should fall into that. That will be the right approach for it. Then the moment you’re trying to do a new campaign or to set up a new measurement tracking place, anything is like, “what are the steps that will help me to get there?” And that steps, whatever it is, whether potentially more clicks, potentially more conversion, all of the stuff, “is that gonna help me with building a relationship with my customer in the long term?” And that will lead to that trust. I think it’s very simple, but at the same time, it’s hard to get because people love to just to go to the, what I would say, quick results or quick wins. In reality, the quick wins sometimes are more harmful for your brand, for your relationship, rather than actually something gonna build towards something stronger in the future.

[00:04:03] Chantelle:  So for those people that are focused on the numbers and, like, performance targets, there I imagine it’s quite hard to convince people that in the longer term, creating a great customer experience and, therefore, a better outcome for the business is impacted by customer trust. How can you then measure that that is an important thing? What does customer trust mean in in terms of measurement?

[00:04:24] Hazem:  The way I look into it is different milestones. You wanna talk something about long term, but still, I wanna see something happening today. How can I measure that today? And how we can reflect, what I call, a short term and a midterm and long term measurement in place. And how are these all connected towards the same results? So while you can’t maybe measure something of our future’s relationship – I mean, you can predict it, but it takes time to find out if it’s actually worked or not – you can build out different milestones towards that in core. That’s one area from a kind of a measurement framework. But I think another important piece here is managing the expectation. It’s actually the different type of stakeholders being on the same page. Are we really aligned on what we wanna do? Or is Mark really keen on one specific metric versus Chantelle versus Hazem versus other people? They look at different areas. And I think that’s usually what causes the issue as we don’t have a single view of what we wanna do. And everyone is super focused on one thing that matters for them, but in isolation, not how that will or could work as a full picture.

[00:05:41] Mark:  So I guess we’ve still just talked about it though in terms of results and convincing people it is the best thing to do for the long term. Where does being ethical come into it for you? Where does that sense of ethics and responsibility come from?

[00:05:54] Hazem:  Ethics comes when you realise the reality of “is what we’re doing really what we should be doing for our customers?” It’s not just about “I’m legally okay” or “I’m legally, kind of, ticking the box”. I think that’s the difference in terms of trying just to fit in the regulation on what’s needed and that it’s a “done” task and thinking back to the lens of your customer. In another view, let’s put it this way, and I think we discussed this before: If you think of this is something related to your family, to your kids, to your parents, is that something you really want to reach out to them with, or communicated to them? I think that’s where the ethics kicks in. It’s above and beyond the legal side of things. It’s above and beyond the optimisation game or the quick wins. It more comes and settles when you start thinking about long term relationship because that allows you to minimise, kind of, the decision that you’re gonna make and what will be a trade off on what ethical could be. I think that’s where it come to my side, where ethics kicks in.

[00:07:04] Chantelle:  And just on that, I mean, ethics, just as a word, or as a concept, is a pretty subjective thing, right? Like, people will have different ethics. And, for instance, ethical marketing today will be completely different to ethical marketing five years ago, where constantly new things and new capabilities are being introduced. How do you think that ethical marketing as a concept is is evolving and the different impact of the things that are going on in the world has on marketing? What are your opinions on that?

[00:07:32] Hazem:  I think it’s becoming more, if I find the right words, more important, more essential with more technology coming and with more of the use of AI. Because technology and AI and all this stuff helps you to scale things. And the reality is that it could be in both sides, could be good thing, and scaling in an amazing way to, again, to help that relationship with the customers and building that trust, or it could be destroying it at scale as well. So being ethical is becoming more and more important than ever before, But at the same time, it could get more complicated – because in a lot of my career experiences so far, I work on just one market.Now I work on the multi markets or international markets where things are different. How people look at things from one market to another, from one country to another is totally different. And assuming the assumption of “that should work”, I think that’s one of the areas where it should be stopped. You always need to test things. You always need to try and ask the question, “is that relevant to your customer in that environment, in that market, in that language”, and all these kind of different factors and filters to ensure you’re doing the right thing.

[00:08:53] Chantelle:  I agree with that. And like you say, the right thing is different per person. I think one of the things with the evolution of technology and AI that’s come, I think technology happens in cycles. Right? Technology capability happens in cycles. And I think at the moment, we’re seeing some people, not all people, some people love the efficiency of AI, but some people are kind of yearning or nostalgic for human contact, like it used to be: speaking to people on the phone. Like how people, when music streaming services came along, then sales and vinyls went up, and all those kind of things. I think there are some people who like nostalgia and don’t want their life to be the most efficient thing as possible. They want that human contact. And I think we’re kind of seeing a loop background in some of these new capabilities that AI has unlocked. And I think that sort of builds into the customer trust point that the trust, if you cater to each individual’s needs, then you’ll get that trust from the customer, which will lead to better out business outcomes because they’ll come back to you.

[00:09:52] Hazem:  100%. Yep.

[00:09:53] Mark:  Do you think every vertical, every industry has the same responsibility to be ethical, or do you think financial services is you’re dealing with people’s money? Is it different there than it would be in, say, a retailer selling you toothpaste?

[00:10:07] Hazem:  I would say it should be. It is across all the industries, but to the previous point, we could have a different flavour. And let me explain that one. If you work with financial services, actually, the ethics is kind of fully embedded within the culture and the environment because to your point, you have a lot of responsibility when it comes to customer data and banking with you, to build around trust and that long term relationship. So it’s much easier topic or to be digested within the environment and within the enterprise level. But we look at other industries, I think without going into names, I think it definitely needs to be there. And I think that’s where there should be more work happening across other industries, where there’s not maybe much attention or regulation attention to these industries, but it does still reflect and effect on the consumer on a daily basis, even if it’s a toothpaste, right? It could be anything. So that’s, I think, the important part. One example I’m gonna add on guys, but the topic about the use of social media for kids and the latest coming from the UK before Australia, and I think Europe will will follow in terms of the age brackets. For me, that’s coming as a regulation. Right? It’s a legal thing. But I question the ethical messages out there from a lot of brands in other industries, and their terms to go after the younger generation school, or maybe early years in the university, and to communicate and market their different products. Is that really, is it cool? So that’s for me the kind of the question. 

[00:11:51] Mark: I think just because you can legally do something doesn’t mean you should. Right?.

[00:11:58] Hazem:  Exactly. Yeah. And I think that’s where some of those where things are still more relaxed with the regulation. The ethical bit should be actually more stronger and should be the keeper, if you want, for such thing in terms of what you should be doign in 2026.

[00:12:13] Chantelle:  So just to talk a little bit specifically about our industry, sort of within martech, within marketing, we’re always, you know, seeing buzzwords like you’ve gotta leverage your data and create one to one personalised experiences. We’re always talking about personalisation. We’ve got more data than ever. We’ve got lots of insights on customers. And so, technically, we can be very sophisticated with our marketing. But is there a line between using all of that data and creating relevant experiences versus actually manipulating, um, the behaviour of your customers? You know, there’s some extreme examples that have made the news over the years. What’s your general feeling on where that line sits?

[00:12:51] Hazem:  I can see a lot of people just getting excited about personalisation. Similar, they get excited about the use of technology, the use of AI. it’s all great stuff, but I think back to the point of – you need to be sensible in the way of you’re using that visualisation. It makes sense when actually it’s relevant. I would love to get some personalised stuff to my side at specific occasion, at specific times. Otherwise, it’s gonna sound and look weird or creepy, to be honest. And I think there is again, back to the measurement topic: a lot of people get obsessed with optimisation. I would say the same when it comes to personalisation. People get obsessed with collecting more data and doing more personalisation, and I don’t think that’s the right thing to do. The starting point is you should be collecting the minimum data, but at the same time, these data are the most impactful for your customer. So the art of personalisation is the minimum data you can collect, but the maximum impact that you can get out of it for your customer. Defining the exchange value between the brand and the customer in terms of, well, you trusted me with your data, with your permission on specific topic, and here you go, I’m gonna reward you or how I’m gonna make use of it. I think that’s very important as well to the communication, the design, the experience with the customer is really important. A lot of time, people, they just take for granted “Well, we got that permission, then let’s go ahead and just do what we think is right”, which is great if it actually makes sense for your customer, if you think it will land correctly. But always assumption is not the right thing to do. It’s like testing things and seeing what the result looks like when it comes to personalisation. And then you can find the right balance between where you should do it or not do it.

[00:14:44] Chantelle:  Yeah. I like what you said there. It’s about not coming across too creepy. Me and Mark have spoken about this before. An example I like to use is when you get, like, a Spotify wrapped email and it’s like, you’ve spent this many minutes listening to this or these are your top artists, and everyone kind of follows suit now. Like, there’s certain brands that you couldn’t do that with because I always use the example of Instagram because I like to my guilty pleasure is having a little scroll on Instagram. But I don’t want an email that says you’ve spent this many minutes on Instagram because that would, like, throw me off. I don’t need to know that piece of information. So it depends on like you said, you don’t wanna come across as knowing too much. But, actually, some brands, maybe that’s their persona, and their customers might like to know a lot about themselves as well. So it just really depends on what you want the outcome to be in your audience.

[00:15:29] Hazem:  So, Samara, that I think it’s the outcome. Right? It’s like what kind of outcome you wanna get? What is the wow factor that you want your customer be happy about it? When it comes to it’s like “we’ve done that personalisation” rather than just “we’ve done x number of personalisation across x number of customers”, I think that’s the shift of the mindset between the numbers games to the quality of these outcomes.

[00:15:54] Chantelle:  Yeah. And just the point you made about permissions, I think, is an interesting point as well. I think it’s not as fun of a topic for people consent or maybe unless you’re like a legal team.

[00:16:04] Mark:  Or a data nerd.

[00:16:06] Chantelle:  Or a data nerd. Yeah. Do you think that the average customer knows and understands what they’re consenting to when, you know, they check their boxes or they’re saying, yeah. I just wanna create account. Like, I know if I sign up to free Wi Fi or, like, maybe I’m quite lazy person, or I sign up to a mailing list, I’m just checking a box. Do you think people have a good understanding of what their data is being used for?

[00:16:29] Hazem:  The answer is yes and no, and I’ll explain that one. Yes. They know they’re ticking the boxes, but sometimes they just tick the box to go to the next stage to complete that purchase, to complete the onboarding for that journey or opening a new account, etcetera. So they’re aware that you just sign up, but are they exactly what is gonna happen next? I would say no. And I think that’s where we go back to the responsibility and the ethics and ethical use of even with the consent. It’s a simple thing. To your point, the legal team will love to put more script there just to make sure everyone’s protected. Maybe it makes sense for other people just to hide it somewhere within somewhere in the journey. For me, all of that is not the right practice. What’s the right practice or the best practice is to make it simple, visually appealing for the customer and while everyone has no time and they just wanna get it done, they still can understand in a simple word, in simple English (or Chinese or whatever language it is) they understand exactly what they’re signing up for, and what they’re giving you the permission for. It’s easy to collect permissions and consents and opt in. Now there’s a different tricks people do it just to, again, to the volume number or to raise the opt in percentage. But I always question that is is that what you’re after? Because you might have a 90% or 80% opt in rates, but then after that, when you reach out to them with specific message, they totally ignore you because either it’s irrelevant or they’re not expecting it or they’re not happy about it. So, again, back to that quality bit that helped drive all the way back to your point, uh, if the customer knows or not.

[00:18:12] Chantelle:  I guess, yeah, consent’s become a lot more about legal protection more than actually understanding or capturing preferences of a customer. If I know for me in my inbox, if I receive two emails a day or even an email a day from a brand, I’m not looking at those emails. If I get one that I don’t normally receive, I’ll probably read it. So I’m more likely to engage with brands that I have my preferences down, you know.

[00:18:34] Hazem:  Quick check. I’m just gonna do a tandem now. I’m checking my phone, looking at my personal email, I have 3,900 unread emails. So this is just an example of how much potential promotion (I mean, if there’s anything I need to see, I’ve seen it. Of course, I check my email every hour. But just saying ) is wasted marketing, wasted money, etcetera. And this is potentially things I opted into, by the way, But I can’t recognise or call that because I was just trying to get to the next page to purchase something or to sign up for something.

[00:19:07] Mark:  And it’s back to what we said earlier. The customer’s giving you permission, consent to talk to them, but just because we now can doesn’t mean we always should. It’s great that they have said that, yeah, please contact me, but then just hitting them with loads of marketing, at best, you’re going to disengage them, at worst, you’re gonna get them to opt out or put you in spam and then damage your reputation,

[00:19:28] Hazem:  and it goes from there.

[00:19:30] Mark:  I’d like to talk about AI a bit more. You mentioned it earlier, but I think lots of marketing and customer decisions that used to be made by people are starting to be pushed into the AI space, and people are talking about Agenctic and getting Agenstic to write campaign briefs and so on and so forth. Do you think AI changes marketing ethics, or do you think it might just expose problems that were already there?

[00:19:53] Hazem:  I would say something once a bit before that one, marketing is always there for years and hundreds of years. We’re doing marketing, and ethics, it changes. AI is just a tool. The technology is a tool. It’s here and will be there and potentially there will be something else. Twenty years back, there no just the marketing. Right? So that will change. With the new things coming in, of course, we need to rethink about the ethics we’ve used, this technology, this innovation in place to protect our customer. It’s just a change in the rules of the game rather than the game itself. The ethics should be ethics there. By looking at AI in specific, there are a lot of changes happening, and the era of AI in marketing, I mean, we will talk in twelve months from now, that we will totally different game. So the speed of it, I would say, the challenge on ethics is much bigger, which means you need a lot of more people out there putting more effort into the ethics topic just because of a lot of changes happening from the AI perspective.

[00:20:54] Mark:  Yeah. You said earlier, the regulation’s there to protect people. But even without the regulation, you need people to be ethical. As opposed to the AI moving too quickly, the regulations haven’t even caught up yet. So if there’s nothing to stop us doing the things that we should do, how much do we need to rely on people doing the right thing?

[00:21:12] Hazem:  Exactly. Exactly. The point is we need to be in the support with the regulators when it comes to AI rather than anything else. Because now you might start using the AI for automation purposes or taking decisions, etcetera. How much of that is actually exposed or communicated clearly to the customer? There’s nothing wrong with using the technology to help you with your productivity, right, to to be much faster and improve potentially the quality to the customer and some of the areas and the services. But is that being communicated to them? Are they comfortable with that? So I think that’s the question that people start thinking about every time they deploy whatever they’re doing. Simple questions that relate to their customer, their friends, and family as well.

[00:22:03] Mark:  I think people could think they’re using AI responsibly, but as I said, it’s moving quickly. You hear about there being bias in AI models. So what do we need to do to make sure that it is all working the way that we think it is?

[00:22:15] Hazem:  I love this question. I think, like, I go out and about at a lot for conferences, speakers out there. Everyone is back on the obsession of talking about AI, the impact of it, where to use AI, and all these things. And always my feedback to any of these is, like, “can we start to talk about the ethics of using AI”? Like, are we prepared? Whoever’s using it or wants to use it, do they have the right setup in place? I think that’s the main thing is that governance in place, the guardrails in place. When you have that right, then it doesn’t matter where you use the technology. Of course, if you’ve gotta try it, then you’re gonna use it where it makes sense for your business, for your customer. You need one level before that or you need that kind of filter just to make sure you have the right guardrails in place. If I give you an example: If you look at building a kitchen, right, with pipes and you want just the water flow is going in a great speed, that water flow is your technology and how it can help you to do so. But if the pipes are not in correctly there, one might give you a leak. That one might give you something bad, rather than something good. So, again, technology can scales things, but you really need to have the right foundation, whether it’s the data, whether it’s the pipes and the structure, which are the covenants in place, and you have all the kind of the checks and human in loop to make sure, actually, there’s a quality check happening at every stage. Then the results will be great. If you don’t do that, really, it could be very harmful. 

[00:24:06] Mark:  So in the thing with large language models, right, is they’ve learned from what has been before, and what has been before isn’t always right and what we want it to be. So let’s say we’ve got a model, and it’s I don’t know. Maybe it’s pushing a certain product to a certain demographic group, and, really, that’s not the right thing to do. Is it the human checks that’s the only way you can see it getting through that? We need someone asking, Does this feel like it’s the right thing to do? Back to your point earlier, do I want my parents or grandparents or or kids to receive that?

[00:24:35] Hazem:  100%.

[00:24:36] Mark:  Are there also positives to AI? Could AI help us build more trust with customers, and actually serve customers better?

[00:24:44] Hazem:  Absolutely. The technology is always there and can help you if you use it correctly. So I’ll give example on in terms of if you look at how you want to deal with customer relationship or call centres. Just imagine the fact is with the technology, it can able to understand or predict what potentially the customer will call you about or potentially what they need next from a help perspective. So by knowing that, you minimise the time you spend on the call, the frustration, and the quality of outcome from such call will be much better. So that’s just an example, not – to be honest – directly from my day to day job, but just from the industry worldwide. Let me talk about other industries like how it comes to the health sector. Again, using the technology to help you to identify diseases or treatments in a much quicker way, that’s great news for a lot of patients, for example. There are a lot of use cases out there that actually you can see that’s how it’s gonna be and amazing for all of us. The only concern I have is would we need to put priority in terms of where we should use the AI, what kind of these use cases that reflect back into business, to the humanity, in terms of the good places. I was in another talk the couple of months ago, I talked about the homeless situation and where data and technology can help, not fully solve it because it’s just beyond technology, but, definitely, give a factor in terms of how to minimise, or how to predict, how to deal with in a better way, to minimise the days you can be out there with no home. So, definitely, AI is a great thing to have but you just need to be careful. You just need to be sensible where you use it and where actually it makes sense for the customers and for the community.

[00:26:33] Chantelle: So most marketers aren’t intentionally unethical. Many good teams in good organisations just end up doing the wrong thing, whether, you know, there’s time pressure or commercial pressure or they just sort of lose sight of what they’re looking to achieve from a customer experience perspective. What’s your view on why that happens?

[00:27:45] Hazem: You mentioned a few of them, but, yeah, I totally agree. Sometimes you have a pressure, whether it’s a commercial pressure, specific setup within the organisation. Do you have, like, targets? And I think a lot of organisations, they have these quality targets that you need to achieve. It could be another poor incentive for design and another very, very crucial one, the lack of governance. All of it just kind of contributes to ending up not being ethical enough, I would say. Again, to your point, it’s not that someone’s just sitting there saying “Oh, I don’t wanna be ethical.” Of course not. But have you thought about it? Did you have the chance to think if what you’re doing is what you should be doing? The answer is sometimes that can be slipped, dropped just because the pressure of other things happening at the same time.

[00:28:32] Mark:  So a lot of it is kind of short termism, just looking at it, a narrow window. It’s what I need right now rather than thinking about what’s best in the long term.

[00:28:41] Hazem:  100%. And that’s why if you have the right governance in place, that will ease the pressure on a lot of people and a lot of stakeholders on this short term pressure. Because even if there’s a short term pressure, hopefully, that short term pressure is linked to a long term value and outcome.

[00:28:59] Mark:  Is there education of leaders that needs to be done as this is the challenge you create? Because ultimately, it’s well, is it leaders of businesses that create the problem, or is it shareholders and capitalism? Who knows? But, yeah, it there’s a need to be some kind of education that doing the right thing for customers will always pay back in the long term.

[00:29:19] Hazem:  Definitely, it’s there. Definitely, the top down model will help a lot. But, again, what end up with is you have these ethics in the website on your document here and there. But when it comes to adoption practice, that sometimes could be missed. And you just can’t blame the leadership on that one because they try their best to put that in place. But I think it’s two things: Back to that governance piece – that’s in somewhere in the middle and that facilitates between what the top management and the leadership they want to do. (I mean, usually, they have that business focus and the customer focus in terms of what should be done, and everyone should be there) and the way to make it happen that comes, whic is usually the mid level management – making sure you deliver what you need to deliver, but at the same time, ethically, it’s been as well monitored and it’s been done. But, also, I think it’s a culture thing. I think, hopefully, the benefit of this our chat today is an inspiration to everyone to question their managers, their bosses, if anyone, in terms of, like, is is that what you should be doing? Yeah. Because I think it’s more of of that. That’s what I’m keen on, because the new generation that kind of have all the brave and strong personalities, can go and ask questions. 

[00:30:36] Mark:  So I think that brings us to kind of wrapping up then.Thank you so much for your time, Hazem. It’s been a great chat, so thank you so much for coming on the show.

[00:32:49] Hazem:  Thank you. Thank you, guys. This was really great. Thanks, Hazem.

[00:32:53] Mark:  How did you find that, Chantelle?

[00:32:54] Chantelle:  it was really interesting. I thought we covered lots of points. It will definitely make me think a little bit more about day to day. Just because I have the ability to do something doesn’t mean you should do it.

[00:33:04] Mark:  Yeah. That came out strongly for me. I like that point. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. And I liked his almost human check. Yes. I can send that bit of marketing, but would I want to receive it? Or particularly, would I want my mum, my grandma, my daughter, my son to receive it? And if the answer is no, maybe we should just have a little rethink about whether that’s the right thing to do or not.

[00:33:26] Chantelle:  Yeah. That’s the takeaway, isn’t it?

[00:33:32] Mark:  Yeah. Indeed. Well, great. Thank you everyone for joining us on the CX equation, and we’ll see you again next month. The CX Equation is brought to you by TapCXM. To find out more about what we do and how we can help you, visit tapcxm.com.

[00:33:49] Chantelle:  And then make sure to search for The CX Equation in Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you usually find your podcast. Make sure to click subscribe so you don’t miss any future episodes.

[00:33:59] Mark:  On behalf of the team here at TapCXM, thank you for listening.